GOTR rant on hate and threats on our pages

IMG953903

Folks a little rant is coming your way. We at GOTR started this page and site for a few reasons. We want to support the 2nd Amendment, we want to help folks with any questions about firearms or defense, we want to spread facts not rumors, and we want to have fun!

A lot of what we post generates debate. We encourage that. If you don’t agree with us, tell us why. Use facts and cite a source. If you want make joke, make jokes. We love to laugh. We want to hear from our listeners!

What is getting out of hand is hate. Calls to violence or to murder folks, even politicians we don’t like is not needed or wanted. Racial crap is not needed or wanted. Cop hate is not needed or wanted. Specifically, we had a post about an officer being saved by a bullet proof vest, with a comment “most cops are corrupt, fuck them, kill them all.” Jeff’s father is a cop, his girlfriend is a cop. Gary’s father is a cop. Jason is a cop, and his daughter is about to be a cop. You are calling for them to all be murdered?!? Take that hate filled crap over to “cop block” or some other site. Donut jokes are fine, disagreement with police is fine, pointing out police misconduct is fine, but death threats are not. The “Ban Hammer” will come down.

Likewise, death threats about political figures can be screen captured and used on anti gun sites to make us all look bad. Check that stuff at the door. Because we will delete it.

Have fun, joke, voice your opinion, participate, argue with us, disagree with us, keep the hate and violence to yourself.

GOTR Staff

Sonoma County Deputy Erick Gelhaus cleared in shooting of Andy Lopez

So, the California criminal case of Sonoma County Deputy Erick Gelhaus’ shooting Andy Lopez has been resolved, as the DA has declined charges against Gelhaus.

“Prosecutors said Monday they will not file criminal charges against a Northern California sheriff’s deputy who shot and killed a 13-year-old boy carrying a pellet gun he mistook for an assault rifle. The parents of Andy Lopez decried the decision, saying “it is impossible” to accept and they felt as though their son “had been killed again.”

Erick Gelhaus shot Lopez on Oct. 22 as the teen walked in a Santa Rosa neighborhood with the pellet gun. The deputy told investigators he believed the gun was real and opened fire out of fear for his life.

 

Gelhaus fired eight times, striking the eighth-grader seven times with his department-issued 9 mm handgun. The district attorney said Gelhaus had 18 rounds in his gun and stopped shooting when he felt the threat had ended. Lopez was declared dead at the scene.” – via http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/7355600-No-charges-for-deputy-who-killed-teen-carrying-replica/

The FBI is still looking into possible Civil Rights violations, and the family will sue. So this is far from over. But let’s look at why Deputy Gelhaus was not charged, even though there was tremendous political pressure.

Graham V Connor (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=490&invol=386) states that police use of force must be reasonable given the circumstances available to the officer at the time the trigger is pulled. The Fourth Amendment “reasonableness” inquiry is whether the officers’ actions are “objectively reasonable” in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them, without regard to their underlying intent or motivation. The “reasonableness” of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, and its calculus must embody an allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation. Pp. 490 U. S. 396-397.

Monday morning quarterbacking may show different circumstance, but THE OFFICER IS JUDGED ONLY ON THE FACTS AVAILABLE TO THE OFFICER AT THE TIME. When the trigger was pulled, Deputy Gelhaus had an “armed individual refusing multiple lawful orders to comply”. That is what Gelhaus saw, and that is what Gelhaus had a split second to react to. The facts uncovered during the subsequent months long investigation are real vent to the case, but not to the issue of the reasonableness of the use of force.

So was this tragic? Yes. Do police want to kill people? No. Was the suspect in control of the amount of force used? Yes. Did the suspects actions (whether or not he intended) cause the officer to feel threatened? Yes.

The family wants answers. I would too. I would want answers to questions like “why did my son purposefully remove the mandated orange tip on the replica rifle and the replica pistol he was carrying?” “Why was my 13 year old son high on marijuana, and in possession of marijuana at the time of his death?” “Why was my son not in school at 3:12pm when the school let out at 3:30?”

Perhaps the parents don’t want to ask those types of questions. 13 year olds are just kids. They make poor decisions sometimes. It is up to the parents to teach right from wrong. This is tragic for all parties involved.

-Jason

From the police “WTF are we supposed to do?” files…Open Carry rights versus reasonable police response.

http://lawenforcementtoday.com/2013/08/06/another-aurora-prevented-by-flint-michigan-police%E2%80%99s-adept-action/

“On Tuesday, July 30, 2013, police were called to the Trillium Theater in Grand Blanc Township (Michigan) on a report of a man wearing a bulletproof vest (BPV) and in possession of a gun was in the theatre. Cassidy Delavergne was found wearing a BPV and in possession of a gun as he sat among theatre goers. Delavergne was held for a mental examination after his arrest.

 

The police located Delavergne as he was watching a movie. Delavergne did not outwardly threaten any of the movie goers. The oddity of an armed individual wearing a BPV among a crowd of people required a quick and prudent police response to circumvent a potential. As the police approached Delavergne, he identified himself to be a federal agent and produced a fake CIA ID badge.

 

Delavergne was taken into custody without incident. He was in possession of a 9 mm semi-automatic firearm and 34 rounds of ammunition. This led to a search of Delavergne’s car, where an additional 111 rounds of ammunition was confiscated.

 

Of greatest concern is that Delavergne is licensed as a Michigan concealed carrier. His arrest is based solely on a federal offense of possessing fraudulent government identification. Charges were not filed against Delavergne for wearing a BPV when he was considered armed and dangerous. Once processed, Delavergne was released on a bond.”

Now, this can be viewed as either A) a tragedy prevented, or Nazi Thug Cops harassing a man who has committed no crime and is exercising his rights.

Well, what do you you folks think? Should cops have responded? Should they have left him alone until he acted out? No crime had been committed when they responded. So, should they have even responded at all? (Remember, the ONLY crime committed was providing false ID, which only occurred after the police response.)

This is the problem I have expressed on the air about folks who simply want to “prove their point” about gun rights. Every fool that walks around with his gun displayed for the SOLE PURPOSE of filming the inevitable police response is clouding the future police response to someone who may very well be an active shooter about to begin. I can only assume that the suspect in this story exposed his pistol for all to see, otherwise, how would they have know to call the police? Unless Michigan is open carry friendly, which I do not know off the top of my head…

In Texas, is it legal to own/wear body armor? In most instances, yes. Is it legal to carry your pistol? With a valid CHL, yes. Is it legal to carry your rifle around? In most cases, yes.

But know that the police will probably be called if someone sees a gun, and the police will respond, and the police will probably treat you as a potential threat because they can not read your mind. They only know there is a “man with a gun” call being dropped. If they say, “well, carrying a gun around IS perfectly legal” and slowly respond, and it turns out to be an active shooter, lives are lost. If they respond fast and treat you as a potential threat, the worst that usually happens is bruised egos and the gun owner sues the cops… You could either end up with another Aurora Theater tragedy or another Mark Worley / CJ Grisham type incident. I wish cops were perfect. I wish cops could predict who is harmless and who is harmful. But we can’t. Should cops be polite and professional when confronting armed folks? Depends on the situation.

I know everyone has rights. I am pro second amendment, pro CHL, pro standard capacity magazines, pro AR rifles, pro ordering ammo online, pro gun in general and pro self defense. I just ask folks to look at the “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation you place the police into by walking around in some type of open carry. You have the right to do so, just be aware of what actions may result.

You tell us… Did the Michigan police handle this properly? Was a tragedy averted? Or, were this man’s rights violated?

-Jason

Police in UK arrest home owner for shooting burglars.

The home owner had a legally owned shotgun.  The four intruders broke into his home after midnight.  The homeowner fires one round, wounding two burglars.  So the police arrest EVERYBODY, including the homeowners wife, who never touched the shotgun…  Folks, thank God you do not live in the UK…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-19463707

An MP has said two householders should not be prosecuted for protecting their home after they were arrested for firing a gun at alleged burglars.

Alan Duncan, MP for Rutland and Melton, said the case was “straightforward” and the married couple from Welby were defending themselves.

Leicestershire Police were called by the man who said he had fired a shotgun at a group of intruders.

“Start Quote

The householder is the victim here and justice should support them and prosecute the burglars”

Alan Duncan MP

One of the suspected raiders called an ambulance. Another went to hospital.

Officers said a 35-year-old man and his 43-year-old wife were arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm.

Four men, aged 27, 23, 31 and 33, were arrested on suspicion of aggravated burglary.

A police spokeswoman said officers had been granted more time to question all six.

Legally held shotgun

Mr Duncan, a government minister, said: “If this is a straightforward case of someone using a shotgun to defend themselves against burglars in the dead of night, then I would hope that the police will prosecute the burglars and not my constituents.

“The householder is the victim here and justice should support them and prosecute the burglars.”

A statement from Leicestershire Police said: “Police were called at 12.26am this morning [Sunday] by a man reporting a group of men had broken into his home in Melton.

“The man stated that during the course of the incident he had fired a legally held shotgun and the intruders had left the scene.

“Around five minutes later the ambulance service called to tell us they had been called to a man with injuries consistent with shotgun injuries.

“A second man presented at Leicester Royal Infirmary with similar injuries.”

All six remain in custody on Monday, Leicestershire Police confirmed.

Gun shop owner kills suspected burglar, injures two others.

Yet another armed store owner defending his life and his property with a lawfully owned firearm.  An AR-15 style rifle no less!  They can be used for good instead of evil.  This type of story does not get the press attention it should.  If the store owner had been killed, the press would be shouting about the “Evils of guns!”

 

“NORTH AUGUSTA — One man is dead and two are recovering after being shot by a gun store owner during a burglary of his business Thursday morning.

Stephen Bayazes Jr., 57, told officers that he and his wife were asleep in an apartment at the back of the business, Guns & Ammo Gunsmith, 522 Edgefield Road, shortly before 4 a.m. when he awoke after hearing a loud crash and the activation of a silent alarm.

Bayazes grabbed an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle and found three men loading guns into a van that had crashed through the side wall of the store.”

http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/crime-courts/2012-08-09/gun-shop-owner-kills-suspected-burglar-injures-two-others?v=1344512190